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Montana Gun Trader Blog
Here find updates, polls, commentary and affiliate ads as well as information related to laws and legislation affecting firearms transactions in Montana.
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MontanaGunsForSale.com (was) a scam and fraudulent website pretending to be affiliated to pirate our keywords/SEO
<- This is my original avatar created for MontanaGuns.Org many years ago. You know your website is getting more popular when pirates are trying to tag along for the ride.
MontanaGunsForSale.com was one of the original websites obtained by the founder of MontanaGuns.Org. It was obtained among others to help preserve it from pirating keywords just as the one embedded below does. Unfortunately holding on to it among others is not possible because the cost of doing so. Please donate to MontanaGuns.Org to help preserve the domains we do have from pirating like the one below. I get it, they’re trying to capitalize on our popularity and our organic keywords. These people are dirt bags.
They’ve since taken it down because they realized resistance is futile. Check out MontanaGuns.Org instead.
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Poll: Do You Support or Oppose The Proposed Great Wall of Montana?
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Poll: Do You Support or Oppose The Permit-less Concealed Carry Of Firearms in Montana?
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A Guide to Private Firearms Sales From Pro-Gun Leaders At The Montana Shooting Sports Association
A Guide to Private Firearm Sales
Moral and Legal Responsibilities
Source: http://www.progunleaders.org/privatesales
by Gary Marbut, President
Montana Shooting Sports Association
Author, Gun Laws of Montana
The answer to this has several parts. First, I am not an attorney, so consult with an attorney if you want a more licensed opinion. Second, let’s divide this question into five parts: Moral responsibility, responsibility under state law, responsibility under federal law, potential civil liability, and practical matters.
Moral responsibility. That’s easy. As a moral person and a responsible, law-abiding member of society and gun owner, we do not want to transfer a firearm (or even a car) to another person who would use it to jeopardize or injure an innocent person. We want to have some assurance that the buyer is not a criminal or dangerously careless person, and not flaky or unstable. Thus, it’s helpful in assessing character issues to be selling to someone we know well, personally.
State laws. I’m not an expert on any laws except those of my home state, so the reader will need to incorporate separately whatever his or her home state laws may require or prohibit. Montana laws do not control private transfers of firearms.
Federal laws. 18 USC § 922(d) makes it a crime to transfer a firerarm or ammunition to another person “ knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person” is prohibited from firearm possession, specifically:
18 USC § 922(d) says:
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and
(B)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
This subsection shall not apply with respect to the sale or disposition of a firearm or ammunition to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector who pursuant to subsection (b) of section 925 of this chapter is not precluded from dealing in firearms or ammunition, or to a person who has been granted relief from disabilities pursuant to subsection (c) of section 925 of this chapter.
18 USC § 922(a)(5) makes it illegal to transfer a firearm to a person the seller knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in the state of the seller. This does not include a temporary transfer such as the loan of a firearm for hunting. Here is the specific wording of the federal law:
It shall be unlawful –
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes
All of Section 922 is posted at https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922.
Civil liability. Under the Law of Torts, the general rule is that you are not responsible for the criminal or negligent activities of another person unless you knew or should have known of their intent. That means that the default is you can assume that a buyer’s intent is lawful. However, if a seller is sued by an injured person alleging that the seller knew or should have known that the buyer would likely use the firearm sold to cause the injury, then the question will likely come before a jury to decide. In addition to having to pay an attorney to defend him, the seller could also have a stiff award against him or her and in favor of the plaintiff. Thus, a prudent seller will be cautious when selling firearms. There are ways to make the process safer.
Practical matters. When a private person (not an FFL) is selling a firearm to another private person, there are a number of ways a reasonable and prudent seller can reduce legal and moral risk.
Sell to known people. A person selling a firearm privately will be better off selling to someone the person knows well, if you have confidence that the person is not prohibited under federal law and is not a flaky or unsound person. This might be a neighbor you’ve know for years, a longtime co-worker, or a member of your gun club. Selling to unknown people is where more due diligence is required to keep the seller on safe legal and moral ground.
Other indicators. If the buyer has a currently valid concealed weapon permit, that usually means that the person has recently passed a federal background check and is not a prohibited person under federal law. If you know (for sure) that the person has recently purchased a firearm from a federally-licensed dealer, then the person has cleared the Brady Law background check system and is not a prohibited person. In either case, the prudent seller also will wish to have confidence that the buyer is a solid and stable person, and not flaky or unsound.
General impressions. A seller will want to notice other indicators to determine if a sale to a stranger is copacetic. Is the buyer driving a vehicle with license plates that match his or her claim of residence? Does any identification offered match the buyer? Is the buyer calm and businesslike or nervous and unsettled? With any red flags, it would be prudent to not consummate the sale.
Identification. Many careful people when selling a firearm privately to an unknown buyer will ask the buyer to present identification such as a drivers license, and will write down relevant information from the ID.
Receipt and records. A private seller should also prepare a duplicate receipt for the sale that includes the name and ID type and number of the buyer. It should also include the date of the sale, and the make, model and serial number of the firearm. The buyer should want a copy of this receipt in case the buyer is ever asked to prove that he or she obtained the firearm lawfully. The seller should definitely retain a copy of the receipt. If some law enforcement agent ever comes to the seller claiming that the sold firearm has been retrieved from a crime scene, it will be ever so helpful to have this receipt to document the transfer out of the seller’s possession.
Finally. If all usual vetting fails to get a seller into a comfort zone about a particular buyer, yet the seller really wants to make the sale, the seller can always ask the buyer to meet him at the location of a willing licensed firearms dealer (”FFL”), such as a gunsmith or pawn shop that handles guns, where the buyer can be run through a Brady Law check for the sale. Phone the FFL in advance to confirm availability of and price for this service, which may range from $25 to $60. If the buyer refuses do a transfer via an FFL, then the buyer may be a person the seller doesn’t wish to sell a firearm to. Remember, it’s willing seller, willing buyer.
Depending on your state laws and compliance with these laws and principles, it is perfectly legal and possible for private individuals to sell firearms to other individuals.
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MontanaGunTrader.com was UNPUBLISHED by Facebook WAY BEFORE it was cool!
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Poll: Do You Support or Oppose Universal Background Checks For All Gun Sales?
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Gary Marbut Discusses Guns, Commerce Clause and Independence of State Governments [Video]
Without Gary Marbut and The Montana Shooting Sports Association, Montana would not be the firearms friendly state that it is. Be prepared for MSSA updates for the upcoming legislative session in Montana by joining the MSSA Group at Montana Gun Owners.
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Montana GOP Gubernatorial Candidates Fox, Gianforte & Olszewski Debate in Billings [Full Video]
Which candidate did the best in last nights debate? Tim Fox, Greg Gianforte or Al Olszewski? Who will you be voting for and why?
Which of these three would be best for private ownership and private buying, selling and trading of guns and ammunition as well as overall firearms freedom in Montana? Who would likely sign pro-gun common sense bills into law?
They didn’t trim this before posting as it was Live. Click play, then forward to 1:29:28 for audio.
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Why Hasn’t The MSSA Started a Montana 2nd Amendment Sanctuary Movement Like Virginia Yet?
For those who might not undertake at Facebook much anymore, MSSA President Gary Marbut again sums it up well in a “Facebook Page Post. AND VOTE YES ON LR-130 In November!!
And for those struggling with the screenshot above, pasted as text from Facebook below…
UPDATED 1/14/2020. Please Share
Here is the LR 130 Handout and Information for your use. If you want to know more about LR 130, please read all the way through to the bottom. Any other questions or concerns, please contact us and we’ll address those for you.
Some people have been asking for a handout for LR-130 that they can print locally and distribute to friends, or at gun stores, gun shows, shooting ranges, and more. A .pdf file of such a handout is available for your use from this link.
http://progunleaders.org/LR-130/
You can take this file (printed or electronic) to your local copy shop or printer and ask them to print this two-sided piece on “Astrobright Terra Green Cover” (a bright, lime green, heavy paper) and cut the result into six pocket-sized handouts for each 8.5″X 11″ sheet. You should be able to get 100 sheets printed and cut (into 600 pieces) for about $50. If you wish to pay for printing of 25 sheets, 50 sheets, or 200 sheets, that’s up to you.
This is important! Pay for this with your own (personal) money, not the money of some organization such as a local gun club, or a business. If your gun club or business pays for this, it could be required to form a “political committee”, file a bunch of paperwork with the Montana Commissioner of Political Practices, and report all sources of income (gun club members?) However, if you do this with your personal funds, and unless you spend $250 or more, it is a freedom of speech exercise. No reporting required.
Help freedom, preserve the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, help Montana gun owners, and help MSSA by getting these handouts spread to voters all over Montana.
Explaining LR-130, and why it’s important to Montana
Some Montana gun owners have asked me where they can actually read LR-130, the November ballot issue to protect our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
I’ll provide a link below to where you can read LR-130 for yourself. But first let me explain what LR-130 does and how to read it.
LR-130 is the result of House Bill 357 having been passed by the 2019 Legislature. HB 357 sets a ballot measure to amend two relevant and existing state laws. When an existing law is amended, language may be added to the law (shown as underlined words), or it can delete language from the law (shown as strikethrough words).
Two current state laws limit cities’ and counties’ authority to regulate firearms, but they are not enough limitation. One law, 7-1-111(9), M.C.A., prohibits local governments from using “any power that applies to or affects the right to keep or bear arms.” BUT, it goes on to say, “‘except that a local government has the power to regulate the carrying of concealed weapons.” LR-130 will remove this “except” clause from the law.
The other law to be amended by LR-130 is 45-8-351, M.C.A. This law generally prohibits local gun control, BUT says that for “public safety purposes” a local government may adopt and enforce gun control measures in several ways. LR-130 will dramatically shorten this list of allowed exceptions. The net effect is that local governments will still be allowed to regulate unpermitted concealed weapons (people carrying concealed illegally inside city limits) and open carry into buildings owned and occupied by governmental entities.
That’s it. If LR-130 is successful, local governments will no longer have alleged loopholes to exploit as Missoula tried with its universal background check ordinance and various “gun free zones” concerning “parks” and “public assemblies.”
Knowing this much, you are now equipped to read LR-130 at:
https://sosmt.gov/wp-content/uploads/LR-130.pdf
Some local governments and anti-gun political entities in Montana will likely mount a campaign against LR-130. They may be joined by New York City billionaire Michael Bloomberg and his surrogate entities such as Demanding Moms and Illegal Mayors for Guns. In this opposition, these opponents will almost certainly make up major and scary lies about the effects of LR-130, trying to stampede low-information voters away from LR-130. One predictable lie (they’ve already floated this one) is that LR-130 will permit crazy people to go into schools and kill innocent children. Scary, huh? But, it’s a lie. There is a different, existing law (45-8-361, M.C.A.) that prohibits guns in schools, a law that will not be affected by LR-130. Even though it falls under the general “save the children” category of political argument, this lie is still stupid. How low must be the IQ of someone who believes that bad people who will ignore laws against murder will be aware of and be deterred from their intended mayhem by an obscure city ordinance.
Although the Montana Constitution has a very strong reservation of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, that reservation is useless if any city or county may concoct and enforce local gun control, creating a patchwork of gun control across the state just waiting to entrap an unwary traveler.
Thus, 7-1-111 and 45-8-351, as updated by LR-130, are the actual implementation of the RKBA in the Montana Constitution. That’s why LR-130 is so important.
Please explain LR-130 to all your friends and neighbors, at your local gun club, to the staff at local gun stores, and anywhere else you can. LR-130 MUST PASS in November.
Best wishes,
Gary Marbut, President
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
Author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
Attached LR 130 graphic art courtesy of the Montana Sportsmen For Fish and Wildlife (Thank You MTSFW for sharing!)
source: https://www.facebook.com/montanashootingsportsassociation/posts/1637004753090700